Backstage with TotM - Arc 2 Talkback
Stories behind the rules telling tales Heroic spotlighting critical fails Half hour Welcome. Welcome backstage to Theater Of The Mindset. I'm your kind and generous DM, Justin Girardeau. And this week, I'm backstage right behind the curtain kind of looking for the part because I wanna peek and see if my crutch is still here. Also with me is Nick Traeger.
Justin Gerardot:Nick, where are you?
Nick Traeger:I am currently stuck underneath where the pit normally is but there's not a pit. There's no musicians here but they actually closed it off and locked all the doors and I'm actively stuck underneath where the musicians should be.
Justin Gerardot:No. That's concerning. Also with me is Steve Edinger. Steve, where are you?
Steve Edinger:I'm actually out in the audience right now, just saying hello to all my well wishers.
Justin Gerardot:Good. I do I see you. Found the part I found the part in the curtain. I see you. That's so cool.
Justin Gerardot:And last but not least is Shelby Myers. Shelby, where are you?
Shelby Myers:I'm backstage in the green room, and I'm hanging out with the actresses who play Tallulah and Beanie, and we're playing Uno.
Justin Gerardot:Honestly, they're the best of us, truly. They're the best of us. Awesome. Well, we just finished arc two of Faith and Fortune. What an exciting arc.
Justin Gerardot:Honestly, I have so many thoughts and feelings about how this arc went down. Not the least of which is kind of where it ended. Not to kind of show all of the cards here, but I had no plans or written out expectations for the entire warehouse scene. Everything from the moment the card slipped out of Acosta's pocket that were chasing Lucan to the moment that the warehouse happened was all improvised. I had no expectations.
Justin Gerardot:That was all kind of like how the fear in Dagger Heart, how that system kind of unfolds. All of that was improvised. And I thought it went it felt extremely good. It felt very exciting. I don't know.
Justin Gerardot:How did that feel as players listening back to it and kind of experiencing it? For you all, what was that like?
Nick Traeger:I think that was my favorite thing we recorded, maybe in the entire, like, series. Mostly because you probably can't tell this, obviously, like, listening to it. But we accidentally, I think Steve and I had to pee and so we left the room during Sara's turn, during Shelby's turn.
Steve Edinger:Uh-huh. And then
Nick Traeger:Yeah. Jess said, oh, let's run with that. And so we were are all separated as characters. Let's not be in the room when it's not us on screen. And so Yeah.
Nick Traeger:I'd like Harry, me, had no idea what the fuck was going on. Like, the first time I heard what Shelby and Steve did was when like, I was editing this episode. Had never heard what happened while I was out of the office.
Shelby Myers:Same. I'm super shocked to find out that that was all improvised because I was like as I was listening to it, was like, wow. Justin really planned this all out, man. It's very cool. That's awesome.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. And I think for me, the parts where I was in the room, not alone, but just with Justin recording, were interesting from, like, the performance perspective because even when the four of us are all sitting in there, I am still taking cues from all of you just like body language in the room even if you're not in the scene and just kinda being on your own. Like, it's a it's an entirely different experience and it really kinda forced you to be like, well, I don't here's what my character is doing. There's no feedback coming. We're just going with this.
Steve Edinger:And that was really fun.
Nick Traeger:Could absolutely be fucking someone else's shit up currently. And
Justin Gerardot:did. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. I think there were things, if I could give myself a little bit of a thorn, I kinda gave you guys answers that I think because you're right.
Justin Gerardot:We had no plan for this, and so keeping people out of the room was not the original intention. But once we kind of picked up on how that was making it exciting even for us as the players, As that kind of came to fruition, I realized that I was kind of giving you all answers that I shouldn't have been doing, like when the horns blast, I was like, oh yeah, you know that those are people retreating. I was like, oh, I shouldn't have told them that. I should have been like, if you wanna find out what that is, that can be your action. And it really just couldn't have given you nothing.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. And really kind of left you even more in the dark would have been my, you know, if I had a full plan for this, what what I would have done. But I think, I don't know, I think it went over really, really well, and the excitement of that that scene felt really top notch.
Shelby Myers:And I think that it worked out with the pacing, too. I think that that played into it. It it it moves. So Yeah. Yeah.
Shelby Myers:I loved it.
Justin Gerardot:Isarn really comes in as the the the bad guy of this arc in a really kind of satisfying way. I think, Nick, you you highlight it really well in kind of a speech you gave as Harry when you were like, you know, Harry is a politician, but when you are using your own people as a pawn, as a sacrifice to kind of get your own wins, that really kind of grinds Harry's gears. Kind of tell me a little bit kind of from your character's perspective and as your perspective as a person, kind of how that informed your view of Isarn.
Nick Traeger:That's like Harry's turn from guy trying to be a politician in the senate and maybe just trying to get senate power to I'm Harry is now going to stop Isarn Halivar and the custodian sanguis. I think, like, as player and, like, as Harry, like, that was the point where I had a hook into stopping these people. I think that was the moment, like, where he, like, mildly threatens Beanie and then he Harry finds out that he's fucking creating martyrs of his own followers. Like, that was 100% the point where Harry's like, oh, this is no longer about like is Asher the king or not. This is like fuck these people.
Nick Traeger:Absolutely fuck these people. There's nothing more opposite of Harry's ethos than this. Like, you take power to take care of people, not to just get more power. And that was that truly was the moment where I think me and Eiry were like, okay, cool. I now have a reason to just go as absolutely hard as possible against this, like, cult.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. It was a really I think originally, I kind of set up in my mind Ysarn as like a foil. Obviously, he's associated with the Church of Boz, kind of as a foil to Lucan. But I think in this arc, he really kind of just proved to be a foil, like a bad guy for everyone. And I think that felt very satisfying.
Justin Gerardot:It was for me
Nick Traeger:as It's
Justin Gerardot:all bad
Nick Traeger:guy. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. Which was was very satisfying.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. I think it's, you know, it's always interesting to move into a, you know, a human villain. You know, I think the first arc, obviously, we were learning a lot as characters. The the Charmwick, you know, experience was a lot of us kind of being challenged as to our place in the world and having expectations of our characters be upended a little bit. But the monster, by and large, was truly sentient isn't the right word, but was truly a, like, monster we had to defeat.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. Isarn is a a guy with his own goals and his own ambitions and, you know, is really capable of doing stuff in the background that we have no input on. I think that makes every confrontation with him, whether smaller or large, have some weight to it in a way that, again, was really, really fun to play.
Justin Gerardot:We're also starting to see a little bit more of kind of Sara peel herself away from the other two a little bit Yeah. In in arc and get a little bit more and we see this I'll come back to this a little bit on Lucan peeling away as well. But Sara kind of peels away from the group a little bit more frequently and has a little bit of different views on some things and challenges her compatriots in some of these moments. What was that like for you, Shelby?
Shelby Myers:I think it's, in hindsight, really satisfying. I was worried that the seeds that I was planting and the directions I was going, I was worried that it was gonna feel a lot more aimless than it is. And part of that is just the editing that Nick is doing, which is amazing. But I think particularly when Sara has that vision from Amanet that she's kind of walking the line, and on one side, Venethar is just, like, destroyed. On the other side it's whole.
Shelby Myers:And I, you know, without spoiling anything, I'm seeing how things are coming together and I'm like, oh, this is very satisfying. And I think, yeah, her whole thing is who do I trust and desperately wanting someone to trust, which is why she's so messy in this arc. As soon as she feels like she has people that she can trust, she's like, okay, here's my secrets. Yeah. But it's really satisfying because now she's torn between these two different worlds and what do I reveal to each side and what do I keep secret and all that kind of stuff.
Shelby Myers:Was a really stressful game to play too. And I'm not a good liar, so there are times that I'm listening to the recording that I'm hearing Shelby being like, oh, fuck shit. What do I say?
Nick Traeger:I
Justin Gerardot:really wanted to directly put you and Steve against one another when I had set Lucan up to save the people in Warren while setting Sara up to kind of subvert that and kind of take over all of the resources that Luca had sent to Warren and steal those away. But you two were just like, oh, no, we can work this out. And, like, did the, like, there's this old team building activity where you, like, kind of put people together and you find out that one group needs, like, the juice of the orange, the other group needs, like, the rind of the orange, but everyone just kind of says that they want the orange. And I'm like a lot of that is the dice. Right?
Justin Gerardot:So I genuinely don't want any I don't wanna create a conflict and kind of go against the dice. And you both rolled dice in that moment that found kind of that solution and led you to that area. So I didn't want to fabricate a conflict beyond more than I had already done. And so you found that solution kind of, I think, Steve, you had rolled as Luke in and identified that you might have additional resources that utilize those to to kind of get both sides to get what they need in that moment. So it it all worked out, but I had kind of deliberately tried to get you guys to kind of fight and ultimately kind of subvert each other's needs.
Justin Gerardot:But it all worked out in the end, I guess. But I tried my hardest.
Steve Edinger:It it all did work out but not without a cost. Mechanically, was feeding you fear because I was doing Yeah. You know, die rolls to try and make this all work. But I think there was certainly friction between
Nick Traeger:Yeah.
Steve Edinger:Sara and Lucan in that scene of, you know, Lucan is being put in a spot where he knows what, like, Frank like, the morally right thing to do is and doesn't wanna disappoint his friend. But in order to make all of it come together and make all of that conflict work for everybody, he has to go against, you know, his essentially his own job and kinda sneak in and tell some half truth, like do some things that are uncomfortable for him as well just to make all of that, you know, go in a way that's successful.
Nick Traeger:I also texted Justin when I was editing that scene afterwards and I was like, this bitch sorry I like manipulates the shit out of Luke
Justin Gerardot:A 100%.
Nick Traeger:In that scene. I think I texted Justin like, this bitch, it's so it is in, like, a in such a good because, yeah, like, it could have been set up for a conflict. Like, an actual, like
Justin Gerardot:Yeah.
Nick Traeger:We are not gonna see eye to eye, so we go separate ways. And that didn't land or that didn't come to fruition. But what did come to fruition was this, like, needing Sora desperately needing this thing to happen and wanting to make sure that Lucan doesn't forget, doesn't fuck it up. Like, if there is still, like, a and, like, I think that's the scene where Tara pushes Lucan into being like, let's be honest about Asher and what the fuck's going
Steve Edinger:on Right.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. Like Yeah. A lot came of that scene even though it wasn't maybe what was planned, which is awesome.
Shelby Myers:And it also set up later that we were able to safely remove the faith from Warren and then finding out later that they still lost it. That was that was a nice connection that we were able make later anyways.
Justin Gerardot:Totally. Yeah. Going back to what I had mentioned earlier, we see a couple of times in this comparison to the first arc that we're all feeling a little bit more comfortable in the Dagger Heart system as Lucan is feeling a bit more about a crisis of faith or a little bit lack of stability in his faith as I start to take away some of his prayer dice
Steve Edinger:Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:Mhmm. And start to inflict a little bit of those wounds. As every once in a while, every time you express doubt in Baaz or what Baaz represents, I play a little bit with those strings and those paradise that you have at your disposal. Kinda how does that feel? Did that reflect kind of what you were going for in Lucan?
Justin Gerardot:Where does Lucan stand at this place in the story?
Steve Edinger:Absolutely. I really, really wanted to lean into the character arc for Lucan having mechanical consequences. And I think that the losing the paradise and we had the wings starting to lose some of that kind of stuff happening really makes it impossible for me as a character and acting it out to ignore that is what my character is going through and makes it hard to just ignore that development from scene to scene. You know, it makes it a crisis that he's actually going through. And as this arc goes, Lucan is just growing more and more unsure of where he stands in, you know, in an institution that he was very sure of his place in.
Steve Edinger:I think very early in the arc, goal was to kind of have Lucan experience, okay, he had this this time in Sharnwick where he saw things that made him really uncomfortable and made him start asking questions, but now he's back home. So he's on his home turf and is comfortable and is just gonna kick back and drink with the archon. You know, like, he and his best friend, the pope, are just gonna hang out for a little while. And, you know, I think through this arc, really pushed Lucan away from that place of comfort and made him continue to confront things he couldn't ignore even though he's back home. And where that leaves him now is with a lot of questions about place in the world, the church of roles and institution, but also pretty sure that this Isarn guy has gotta go.
Steve Edinger:So, you know, he still has, I'll I'll say, like, a North Star goal of custodian sanguis bad. Isarn, part of that, we gotta we gotta deal with him. And that gives him something concrete to be working towards, even though he has all these questions about the church itself, the institution where Council of Faith plays into, you know, a a society moving forward. And, like, what do you do about Asher? Like, that is all there these are all these things that are causing him, like, inner conflict that he's gonna have to figure out, but he still has a reason to be acting and not just like paralyzed by those questions not be paralyzed by those questions.
Nick Traeger:Yep. It was also that that whole thing did a nice job really subtly, like not over the head, but of setting up sort of the fickle nature of like the relationship between gods and people in Sariel of this sort of like, Lucan starts doubting even just a little and all of a sudden, like mechanically starts losing resources that were gifted to him as a believer. And so just starting to, like, just starting to, like, see the the cracks a little bit in some of that. Yeah. It was really interesting.
Justin Gerardot:For you, Nick, and Harry, I think there's this it's interesting that there's this chronologically, they're not far away from each other at the moment when you kind of reach across the aisle and attempt to shake Isarn's hand of like, hey, we have things in common Yeah. To no. This guy is public enemy number one. He has, like, crossed a line. You are yeah.
Justin Gerardot:How is that and where is Harry in in arc two and where does he find himself?
Nick Traeger:Yeah. I think, like Steve said, we we get back home, like, even just starting in the first episode of this arc, you get like all the sights and sounds of Rysenium City and like the comfort zone, I would say. Like we all start this arc in our like literally at home. And so you see, you know, Harry like really comfortable in the halls of the senate to the point like, I loved playing oh, Constantine's not ready, so Harry leaves the office and goes and chats with someone in the in, like, the hallway. It's like a really fun like, oh, this is Harry's bread and butter.
Nick Traeger:Like, this is where he lives. And so, like, sort of going through that trajectory, yeah, that's a really good call out of how quickly quickly that turn against Cusodia Sangus happened because, yeah, like Harry is at home and his goal is for the senate to gain power. Like, he's like, he doesn't love how the split is between the council of faith and the senate. He thinks the senate's more representative. He says it in his speech or in his, like, interview and everything else.
Nick Traeger:Like, he's angling at every possible thing. That's Harry's big goal. And so when Isarn and the Xodus Anguis aligns with it, like, that's a very sincere moment in the warehouse that Harry's like, okay. We align on something. I don't know, like, how much we align on.
Nick Traeger:Like, this Venn diagram certainly isn't a circle like, but there is some overlap here. And so that's I think like you're truly seeing Harry comfortable and working that angle and working his own personal and like big picture goals up until that point in the story. And then that's the turn where all of a sudden Harry's interested in the bigger story and is no longer, like, using because yeah. I don't know what the story becomes if the if they start working together with Sodia Sangwitz because there's overlap. Like but once he becomes evil, fuck that guy.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. You you say that and yet the moment there's a moment in that same interaction when you kind of throw out the dagger of DL Roulette Yeah. At at at Isard that had me as the DM, like, seeing stars. Like, I was so, like, thrown off by that massive swing that I was like, I need to take a minute because I don't know how big of guns I need to, like, pull out here because Isarn, that is a huge he knew he did not know that you knew that. Yep.
Justin Gerardot:And he needs to keep that a secret. And so, like, that was I was my heart was racing. I think many of us at that moment, our heart started racing.
Nick Traeger:I don't as the editor, I don't leave a lot of, like, table lead, like, table talk y stuff in because, like, I don't want it to be about the story or whatever. But that moment in the room, everyone was just like, oh, no. This story's changed.
Justin Gerardot:Oh, no.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. Everything's First one. What
Shelby Myers:the fuck?
Justin Gerardot:I told Christina that
Steve Edinger:one back.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. I told Christina when I was editing this too as it reminded us. I was up to, like, two or in the morning. I was so jacked after doing that because, yeah, I think we broke shortly after because it was just like, oh Yep. Shit.
Nick Traeger:Everything just exploded. But, yeah, like, no, that's a as soon as, like sometimes you can't really tell. Justin had a look when he said, I'll get in touch with Beanie. Like so you can't necessarily obviously, like, the listener doesn't see the shit face, like, mildly threatening way that Justin said that. And so I intentionally, as the editor, then, like, put, like, a scary sound behind Isarn saying that.
Steve Edinger:You don't need to see Justin's face to know he's being a little
Nick Traeger:shit head. And so that was the point where I was just like, okay, we have this. Like, I know that he's magically inert. I know there was a magically inert person. I know like, I've got these cards and Yeah.
Nick Traeger:As soon as he sort of, like, threatened Beanie, I was just like, oh, if you're gonna be an evil fuck, I guess I guess maybe Like, I guess we'll see what happens. But No. That was was fun. That was a really fun moment. Yeah.
Steve Edinger:And you you making that decision to escalate it really I yeah. Like, it put Justin back on his heels a little bit because, Justin, you had escalated by bringing Beanie all of our favorites. Yeah. Like, I think all three of us Yeah. Are humans, not necessarily our character well, our characters too, would die for Beanie.
Steve Edinger:And so as soon as
Justin Gerardot:you're continuing threaten him, like
Shelby Myers:Gloves are off, man. Yeah.
Steve Edinger:This is no longer a collaborative storytelling environment. We are mad at you. Absolutely.
Justin Gerardot:Absolutely.
Steve Edinger:I have a question for you, Justin. Yeah. Yeah. So having said that that entire warehouse sequence was basically unplanned from the moment I decided to pick a fight or I guess not walk away from a fight on the street. Outside of what we just talked about, were there any moments that caught you off guard or surprised you and really forced you to think on your feet in terms of how you then either spent a fear or otherwise decided to move the story along?
Justin Gerardot:Outside of that one, there's an equally frustrating moment with Bastion.
Nick Traeger:Hell yeah. Yep. Yeah. That one.
Justin Gerardot:I just get trounced. I really thought that I was putting a mole in at a great crucial moment and that Bastion was gonna get his way and he doesn't.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. That's that's a tough one. That was a really like because we Justin and talked about this of just like, man, I would have gone, but not without any escape route.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. Yeah. And but and there's like no way Bastion would let you have escape route. 100%. And he is going to do everything in his power to he kind of revealed his cards by being there, but yeah, I think this, like, it it all kind of ends in a good spot for the story.
Justin Gerardot:But I think had you asked me where do you want this to go at the beginning, it would not have been there in any way, shape, or form.
Steve Edinger:And do you do you think that the cut the Dagger Heart system contributed to how all of that played out? Because one of the things I think, you know, off mic, we've talked about with Daggerheart is just the way the magic system kinda just lets you do stuff Yeah. Instead of, you know, like the D and D system where you're relying a lot more on checks or saving throws or things. Did you feel like you maybe lost a little bit of control of that encounter because of what Dagger Heart lets player characters, frankly, get away with?
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. I think I think in general, at least and my at at the time of the recording for arc two Mhmm. Yeah. I was not homebrewing characters, or I was not homebrewing adversaries.
Steve Edinger:Interesting.
Justin Gerardot:Like, yet, at the level that I was that I will be in arc three, where I'm much more capable at it and much more prepared for it. So, like, Hold a Person is not in Daggerfight. It's just not. Yep. But but the concept is, and Sauriel, in general, has space for D and D.
Justin Gerardot:And so, like, you know, magic missile is not specifically, I don't think, a spell in in Daggerheart either. But, like, Sariel has space for Dungeons and Dragons. And so, Magic Missile exists as a concept. And so, with that being said, I think it does feel like, in comparison to upper level tier two characters, adversaries at tier two have less at their disposal.
Steve Edinger:Interesting.
Justin Gerardot:Because in that moment, Bastion, who is a tier two war wizard Mhmm. Was just getting trounced by a slippery little
Nick Traeger:Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:Hairy pinch
Nick Traeger:Well, I'm like
Justin Gerardot:who, if he doesn't wanna do something, doesn't have to do I wonder if
Steve Edinger:it came a brawl.
Justin Gerardot:If it came to a brawl, I bet, like Oh. He would win.
Steve Edinger:Absolutely. That's why Harry doesn't pick those fights.
Nick Traeger:That's that's that's well Right. When that's like again, I think Justin and I talked about this because, like, I think this is one of those moments where we've yet to, like, need to re record something because it felt bad. Like, there was an honest conversation deep behind the curtain of, like, that didn't go how we thought it was gonna go. Like, how do we feel about it? Because there was, like, a I think I'm I'm remembering that, like, was the morning after Harry I mean, maybe got killed would have gotten killed by Ishar and his fucking lackeys in the warehouse had Arcane Door not saved his fucking dick.
Nick Traeger:Like
Steve Edinger:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick Traeger:And so, like, that is, like it's one of those things where, like, yeah, he's got three tricks in his fucking bag, and they're not fighting. Yeah. He's not a brave man. He's he's gonna he's gonna dip as soon as he can. Yep.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. No. It was, like yeah. It was a and it was a funny moment because, like, I also failed, I think, two rolls. Like, I got invisible, but I did not get arcane door.
Nick Traeger:And so just, like Right. It was just kinda scampering away, terrified. You know what I mean? Because it did have the effect of scaring the shit out of Harry. Like, we got to the point where he's like, the first thing I do is call Lucan for fucking bodyguards for my mom.
Nick Traeger:You know mean? Like, that is the the first thing. So it's it maybe didn't have the exact desired effect, but it certainly moved Harry's ass and and put the clock really set the clock for, oh, we have to do something now. Like, there's shit happening. Mhmm.
Justin Gerardot:What a great introduction for Harry's mom.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. We love Tallulah.
Justin Gerardot:Probably probably my second favorite. I loved getting to reprise Asher a little bit in arc two. He's changed a lot since we've seen him in arc one. I think the scene he is interacting with Harry in the office. I laughed out loud relistening to it.
Justin Gerardot:I think playing it, Absher is a very different person now. He is a lot more self confident. He feels more in touch with his past lives. Mhmm. Obviously, we know that for whatever reason, those are that connection is false.
Justin Gerardot:But, you know, he's throwing his weight around, which is very different than the unsure person that we saw in arc two in the flashback. Yeah. He's throwing his weight around. He's saying, you know, no, this is my office. I deserve Mhmm.
Justin Gerardot:A really nice office that I visit twice a year. That's this is mine.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because that that was the point. I think that was the first time any of us had the opportunity to, like, do a mechanical check to just even, like, any sense of anything. It was a decent role, I think.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. I was, like, 18 or 19 or something like that. So Yep. That was, yeah, that was definitely a moment for Harry of, like, okay. I guess this is happening.
Nick Traeger:I guess we have to deal with this now. Shit. Yeah. But back to Tallulah. Second Yeah.
Nick Traeger:Second favorite NPC, I I think?
Justin Gerardot:Second favorite NPC, like, I she is warm. She I Venethar University, the Arcane of Arts is a will be a reoccurring theme in, you know, this season and future seasons and is this bastion of learning. The access for magic in Sariel is a relatively new thing in the last, you know, thousand so years. And so I love this concept of wizards actually studying magic. And so what she is doing is, like, if only so many people can cast suggestion, you can't just, like, suggest everyone to do something.
Justin Gerardot:You know? She's like, what is the minimum number suggestions we can cast to, like, manipulate a mass group of rats? Like, what do I what is the minimum number of suggestions I need to cast to, like, manipulate a group of people? That's, like, her current group of studies.
Nick Traeger:It's the tipping point of theory. Exactly. Like,
Justin Gerardot:that's what her focus is. It's not like, how do we cast fireball to the maximum effect? It's like, how can I in enchantment, which is her school of magic, like, how can we manipulate the most amount of people with the least amount of effort? Oh, goodness. Wild.
Justin Gerardot:And I yeah. I I love that concept for like a school of wizardry.
Nick Traeger:Yep. I also loved I'm just finishing up the scoring for the last of these episodes. But it's super fun to see Harry and Tallulah's relationship where it starts as a bit. Harry comes in and yells like the she's on trial basically for the treatment of rats. Like, it's just this very playful, like, clearly a very loving and silly family.
Nick Traeger:Breakneck to the last episode where it's, can I cast tell no lies? Because I actually don't trust anyone and I I need to prove that you don't know anything about any of this. And like all of a sudden, it becomes like a complete like a much more like mother son relationship of like, oh, here's trauma. Here's here's some stuff that's happening. This is a a problem, which is really a really fun dichotomy to to kind of I think the first time we meet Chula is, like, the second episode of r two, so it is a nice little bookend of of, like, mirrored scene.
Nick Traeger:It's very cool.
Shelby Myers:It was a nice moment too. You asking asking consent consent to to cast cast Tell No Lies, which just like, kinda opens just like another layer to like, the magic world and like, that idea of consent in magic use.
Justin Gerardot:And a spell that you probably learned from
Nick Traeger:From 100101100%.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. Like, enchantment magic, I think, in particular, I have spent a lot of time thinking about, like, man, if we had that, like, how pro she references, like, the code of ethics that's responsible. She's like, I would never use that on my husband. But, man, does even the idea of being able to use it not bother him, like, that really irks me. Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:The idea that its existence is out there is, like, borderline problematic and the code of ethics that she has to follow. Yeah. It's a scary school of magic, for sure.
Nick Traeger:Sara also went on a date. Yeah. Justin loves a lesbian love affair.
Justin Gerardot:He did not choose. I did not choose
Shelby Myers:this. I did I did pursue the fact that it was a date. That was that was on me. Yeah. It worked out, though.
Shelby Myers:It was juicy.
Justin Gerardot:It was. It was.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. What was your so you say, Justin, you didn't have that as an intention. But No. Was, like, Imogen meant to be someone that Sara was gonna should get close to theoretically though?
Justin Gerardot:Yes. Yes. I wanted I wanted Imogen to be someone that she would get close to. I I gave her the Dahan early in my, like, conception of Imogen, but did not kinda define what the relationship would be for her. I had originally had conceptions of, like, well, maybe she will be more of, like, who Vivian becomes of, like, the more mentor and go that route.
Justin Gerardot:Or, you know, I wanted to let Shelby decide what that relationship would look like.
Shelby Myers:Yeah. I think Sara's just like a little flirt. Yeah. She's a little flirt. She is flirting in arc one during the party.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. You
Shelby Myers:know? She's just a little flirt. And that just goes back to her just desperate need for companionship.
Nick Traeger:And someone to trust, which I
Shelby Myers:think to trust.
Nick Traeger:I think you got it was really cool to see you with the soup kitchen. The soup kitchen becomes like a really big center of arc two. Actually, would just love to hear both Justin and Shelby talk about just kind of like how that felt on either side. Because obviously, Justin, you must have had that in mind a little. But like Yeah.
Nick Traeger:For Sara, that felt, at least as a listener, very much like the thing Sara's been looking for.
Shelby Myers:Yeah. Definitely. I picked that up immediately. Justin, how'd you design that?
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. So leading up to kind of the creation of this whole season, I kind of spent a lot of time thinking about and talking with people who are involved in politics and kind of doing my own research into that space and kind of just talking with people and asking questions about, like, what is power and how do we relate to it. And, you know, obviously, we have people like Asher who have positional power and are given that space, and then people who have power and then kind of decentralize that and will intentionally kind of attend these community meetings. And then they're they might be the person who are the head of the organization, but not be the one at the front of the room, which is kind of the whole sender growler situation that ESRN kind of creates and how important that is for community organizing. And that kind of started creating the soup kitchen in my mind of this place where people in the commons are creating change, are creating structures structures in in Resinium Rysinium City City that that aren't about collecting power, but kind of decentralized centers of power that create change in the city, which would then, of course, attract the cult of metamorphosis really, really quickly and might be abused that in that sense.
Justin Gerardot:But Oh, my goodness. But that, I think, was the initial origin for that thought.
Shelby Myers:Yeah. And I think from Sara's point of view too, she is really enticed by that idea of change. And the first time she meets task force meeting, he gives her special attention and she's like, maybe this guy isn't that crazy. Of course, she does find him crazy later because he tries to kill a bunch of people.
Steve Edinger:Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:That will do it.
Shelby Myers:That'll do it. That'll do it. But, yeah, I think for Sara, it's this idea of, like, okay, I want change, that's not the way to get it. And the soup kitchen offers this outlet of creating change for good in a way that doesn't feel manipulative. Especially after the warehouse gets raided and all the they're helping everybody.
Shelby Myers:They're helping the guards as well as the protester or the cult people. They're just helping anybody.
Justin Gerardot:Which I
Shelby Myers:think will continue to propel Sara on this idea. Her whole question is, whose side are you on? Kinda thing. And, yeah, that'll get resolved. Or does it?
Shelby Myers:Not really.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. It is and the the, like, soup kitchen part of it, like, food like, I just always associate, like, food and, like, centers of food as gathering places. And Ota, the goddess of, like, the hearth and community is is a part of that as well. And so I think it kind of naturally formed as a space for me in my head as as the spay as the spot place that others who would be looking for the insurgents would be less least likely to look because that is not how they understand power to be.
Steve Edinger:Mhmm. I think that's a really good point of especially Church of Baz, like, Archon Felix, there is no world where that is drawing you know, that part of town even is drawing his attention. Because anybody who is worth finding is going to be hanging around like the the circles he hangs around. Right? Like he just doesn't have that conception that, you know, power could be built anywhere else outside of the institutions that are already in power.
Steve Edinger:Right?
Nick Traeger:I mean, basically says that
Justin Gerardot:Yeah.
Nick Traeger:Like in the I mean, it's like the third scene of this arc when you and him are in the office. Yeah. He's so confused about the concept of what do you mean there's no figure head?
Steve Edinger:Right. Yeah. There's no leader? How are like, how like, and almost took that as, you just haven't found the leader. Yep.
Steve Edinger:You can't be telling me that there isn't one. Yeah.
Nick Traeger:That was actually a very fun scene in general because it went from so silly to so very serious of Lucan getting his ass chewed out a little bit. And, yeah, getting spooky scary, scary, sound of waves in his voice, arc on Felix.
Shelby Myers:That was cool.
Nick Traeger:Only, you know, I don't know, two and a half minutes after the slurping of horchata. Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:Going into arc two, I finally get to like, I think at this point, by the end of it, get to like release all of the possible secrets that I've held throughout So this entire at the end of arc one was the secret that like, that Asher was not the real king. At the end by the end of arc two, I can finally release the secret that Isarn is magically inert. Yeah. Mhmm. Which was a terrible secret to hold because I'm constantly in my head being like, is there anything in the scene that Isarn is in that would impact him magically that I have to be aware of?
Justin Gerardot:So that I think at one point, when we were recording, I like stopped you Nick and was like, hey, did I mention how Isarn got to Residium City? Did I like say that they teleported him at all or did he walk? And you were like, I don't know. And I was like, Okay, well when you record, can you follow-up with me on that? And you were like, Yeah, I guess.
Justin Gerardot:And I was like, Cool, thanks. It'll matter. I promise. So that was like soup like, good relief off of my shoulders. And then the other was just like this drive that the custodian sanguis has of making a factory farm of Mhmm.
Justin Gerardot:Like, sorcerers and kings. Mhmm. Because this is the, like, driving force behind the ultimate, like, kind of question of this campaign, this first season of Theater of the Mindset is, like, logistically speaking, if you can make magic a, like, bloodline thing and you could get a con get some type of control over that, how do you not turn that into a weapon? How does someone not desire to turn that into a weapon? And that, I think, will be a larger plotline, throughline, if you will, of many seasons of or I hope to be many seasons of theater.
Justin Gerardot:The Mindset is kind of what to do these iconoclave, the people who kind of democratize magic, these sorcerers, kind of what have their lives become? But that the Kasodius saying, like, hey, we've kind of cracked the genetic code and turned the incarnate soul into a factory farm of people who are innately capable of magic, mwahaha, aren't we geniuses, felt like a relief off of my shoulders for you to kind of have stuffed out and kind of perplexed. On your side, when you kind of hear that as both players and characters, what did that kind of enemy motive feel like?
Steve Edinger:In some ways, I think I might struggle to land this plane, but in some ways it felt like phenomena we just kind of see in, I don't know, human earth that the four of us live in, where, you know
Justin Gerardot:Yeah.
Steve Edinger:This power or technology or, you know, energy that exists naturally in the world eventually is harnessed and ruthlessly efficient seed. Don't know if efficiency can be used as a verb but we're rolling. And it loses some of the magic to it when we Yeah. Get to the point of, okay, we have refined this and turned it into something predictable and engineered it to death. So for me playing it, it very much tracked that there's this shadowy entity out in Sariel that has the same world view and the same aims just in a fantasy setting.
Justin Gerardot:Definitely what I was going for.
Shelby Myers:Congrats. I don't know. I feel like by the I think what it does is just proves that we can't, like, pussyfoot around. You know? Like, if they've got this giant weapon, like, they're gonna use it even though we don't know what it is, like, the potential of it.
Shelby Myers:And then you also have this abundance of faith that has gone missing now. Right? So, you know, there's just all like you were talking about, like, all this power, and we have information that nobody else has. I don't know. And for and you can tell Sara by the end of this arc, it's just like, we need to do something right now.
Shelby Myers:I need to tell Asher right now. She's freaking the fuck out because the question is, okay, do what? What's your plan genius?
Steve Edinger:Yeah, I love that urgency from Sara of we need to tell Asher, we need to act on this now because it's very in character but it also makes everybody ask, to what end? I'm like, okay, let's do that. We go tell Ashwin, guess we're all arrested. If we just walk in and start a cute like
Justin Gerardot:Yeah.
Steve Edinger:But that need is so real and and true that like we can't just sit on this forever or it's going to like wash us away, right? Mhmm.
Nick Traeger:That also reflects Sara's moment in that. Also reflects your whole like the whole story of Sara of needing someone to trust that comes immediately after, maybe, I think this is true, immediately after you finding out that Imogen. Yeah. Like, you trust a person, immediately lose that trust and are like, fuck it, I trust Asher. Like, there's like a Yeah.
Nick Traeger:There's like a desperation in that in those, like, that ten minutes of recording of like, okay, well, this fucking this one's gone, so I have to do something. Like, surely Asher is who I think he is, and we have to, you know, do this.
Shelby Myers:And you challenged that, and you were like, okay. But what what if he is in on it? And there is a part that Sara goes, well, if he's in on it, then I just don't know. If I can't trust Asher, then I'm just floating in the abyss.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. I think that's how I felt exiting this arc, was like, same same as the first one of just like, great. Be sure to drink from a fire hose and we'd still don't know what people want. Like, great. We have this another, like, another set of like, okay, they're doing a factory farm.
Nick Traeger:Okay, there's faith stolen. There's a new basically like, there's a big weapon coming and what do they want? Like Yeah. Like, do you stop someone when you actually don't how do you stop someone when you actually don't technically know what they're actually after? You know the the means they're taking to get whatever they want, and you know that they've partially succeeded.
Nick Traeger:But like
Justin Gerardot:Yeah.
Nick Traeger:To what end?
Steve Edinger:Yeah. Partially succeeded and are way ahead of us. Yep. You know, like Yes. Just got to the, we gotta stop this.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. Whatever this is, we can't let it happen.
Nick Traeger:Yep. And we have no idea how many people are in on it.
Justin Gerardot:Right? Five
Nick Traeger:of us in a room Right. Going like, could be literally anyone at this point.
Steve Edinger:But this was a huge shift throughout the arc where, you know, we talked about it with Harry earlier, but I think on some level all of us entered this arc with a maybe this, you know, cult of metamorphosis or maybe what we'll call like our antagonists have a point and we should try and meet them halfway or you know, like, not immediate like, I I don't think everyone's first reaction was we gotta put a stop to this. Yeah. And we got to that point of even though we're still in the dark on a lot, we know enough to know it's unacceptable whatever it's going to be.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. The memes don't justify the end. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Justin Gerardot:To close us out, I have a little game that I'm calling Spelling Bee. It's not it's what everyone calls everything. It's fantasy. So obviously, there are like so many words and terms that we have used. But nothing is canon until we decide in this moment.
Justin Gerardot:So I've got some names and some terms that we have used in Arc two specifically. And I'm going to say these things. Everyone can then take a stab at how we think it's spelled. We can then vote on what we think is the best canon spelling, and then that becomes the canon
Shelby Myers:spelling. My
Justin Gerardot:my as the DM, my spelling is not necessarily the canon spelling just because I did make up the term or the name. It is the vote that matters the most. Make sense?
Steve Edinger:100%.
Justin Gerardot:We'll start with Iriscinda, and I'll start with my spelling of Iriscinda, the goddess of motherhood, the sun, and truth. Iriscinda is spelled I r I s c e n d a. Iracenda.
Nick Traeger:That's accurate. That's a true spelling.
Shelby Myers:I would say that that e is an I though.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. I'm I'm with I'm with Phoebe. Have the e at the very end. I have it I r I s c I n d a. You're a cinda.
Steve Edinger:Can you use it in a sentence? Correct.
Nick Traeger:I also think if we were actually, you know, playing in a fantasy world, it would be y r I s c I
Justin Gerardot:o e a. Okay. Well, that's definitely not right.
Steve Edinger:I don't know. I I think it's a it's been suggested. I think we have it's it's in the Yeah. Okay. It's been suggested.
Steve Edinger:It can be the Jill Stein of the spelling.
Nick Traeger:Or I'd like to just do one more. E e r I s c
Steve Edinger:t Too far. Well,
Justin Gerardot:Shelby, you then are the deciders, unless you have your own spelling option.
Shelby Myers:The one that Steve said earlier, I r I s c I n d a.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. So that's two to two. How we break a two to two?
Nick Traeger:No, think I'll go with that. I I
Justin Gerardot:think think we'll
Nick Traeger:just have to change it in all the podcast chapters. That's fine.
Steve Edinger:Oh yeah. So what how much weight are we putting on making Nick do a bunch of extra work?
Nick Traeger:I'm not going I'm not going back but I will start using the correct ones from
Justin Gerardot:here on Do you need us to be writing
Steve Edinger:these down for you?
Justin Gerardot:I'm writing them down. This one's extremely important to me specifically. Ashur. Ashur's spelled a s h u r.
Steve Edinger:Dumb. So before I agree with Nick and say dumb, it is pronounced the way I would pronounce the name Asher like that that you just I I know children named Asher in America. Like
Justin Gerardot:Yeah.
Steve Edinger:It it it's pronounced the same way but we're doing some fantasy spelling nonsense. That's what's happening here?
Nick Traeger:I'd like to submit a spell a fantasy spelling, a s Yeah. Z apostrophe e r.
Justin Gerardot:Ugh. You
Steve Edinger:this is I
Justin Gerardot:know My reasoning my reasoning is because I base them off of like old Hebrew.
Nick Traeger:Right.
Steve Edinger:Yeah. Yeah. You're not spelling it the Hebrew way.
Justin Gerardot:I am. I'm pretty sure in
Steve Edinger:the bible it's e r, my dude. Oh,
Justin Gerardot:no. Oh, no. It's like I have this degree for nothing.
Steve Edinger:No. It's only just seems like that.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah. But It's the Assyrian spelling. Dang it.
Steve Edinger:Ground rule, I'm not allowed to pull out my phone to prove that I'm right about this. But I'm pretty sure it's a s e r in you know, that's the way like god spelled it. Yeah.
Nick Traeger:So if
Shelby Myers:you wanna go against god
Steve Edinger:The a x is the way, I don't know, like Yeah. Satan? What is the opposite of God?
Shelby Myers:I think you're right. Yeah. But
Steve Edinger:here's the thing, as the small variance into fantasy spelling of things, I actually don't mind the a s h u r. I think that's a fun variation.
Shelby Myers:I think, yeah.
Nick Traeger:I'm fine with that.
Shelby Myers:That's how I picture it in my head.
Steve Edinger:I also know it means so much to
Justin Gerardot:you, Justin. It does. It does.
Nick Traeger:Sure.
Justin Gerardot:I have two more. One is less controversial than the other. Baaz. Anyone else want to take a stab at how to spell baz?
Steve Edinger:See, this is where I as his Yeah, Steve Steve's As his
Justin Gerardot:know, his,
Steve Edinger:sub pope. What's a sub pope?
Justin Gerardot:An archon.
Steve Edinger:No. Wait, I thought the archon was the pope.
Shelby Myers:The con clan.
Justin Gerardot:The preacher. Yeah, as a prelate Yeah. Preylet.
Steve Edinger:Is Ba'z for me is where the apostrophe has come into play. I think it is b a apostrophe a z. Yes. That's how I've been
Justin Gerardot:spelling it.
Nick Traeger:Yeah. Apologies to listeners who sometimes I'm lazy and I don't put the apostrophe in.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. It's definitely that's how it's spelled in my all of my
Nick Traeger:letters is b a f
Justin Gerardot:yeah, yeah.
Steve Edinger:The no apostrophe is the the Charmwick spelling.
Shelby Myers:Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And
Justin Gerardot:then the name I made up on the spot that we then butcher several times over and is the onus for this game is DL Rulock. Oh, god. DL Rulock.
Steve Edinger:Okay. This is a first and last name.
Nick Traeger:I think I have it Yes. I think I have it on a pad of paper from our actual sessions.
Justin Gerardot:Good. I also am going to pull it up from our actual sessions.
Steve Edinger:I have it in a group in one of our group texts, but I'm not gonna be looking at that because Okay.
Shelby Myers:I don't have any notes, so I'm going off the cuff here.
Nick Traeger:Do it. Yeah. Do it.
Shelby Myers:It's d l roulotte. D I e l and then r o u l l a t t e.
Steve Edinger:Woah. I love the last name. I think you got the last name.
Justin Gerardot:For me The last name is 100% right,
Steve Edinger:by the way. For me, first name instead of ending e l, I think it should end e l l e.
Justin Gerardot:Yes. E. Steve and I are 100 I have percent the same as
Nick Traeger:d I l on my notes, r u l o t t e.
Steve Edinger:Oh. So you just spelled
Justin Gerardot:Roulette wrong? Yeah.
Nick Traeger:I just assumed that was Justin's misspelling.
Justin Gerardot:No. I have d I e l l e l. Wait, d I e l l e and then r o u l l a t t e.
Shelby Myers:Oh, yeah.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. Was
Shelby Myers:right. Yeah.
Steve Edinger:Mhmm. Yeah. I think I think that's I think you could Yeah.
Nick Traeger:You could d I y a l l with an apostrophe between the two l's.
Shelby Myers:Do y'all? Between the two l's?
Justin Gerardot:Do y'all rely on?
Shelby Myers:Hey, y'all. Do y'all rely on?
Justin Gerardot:I did. In my original spelling of Ahmanet, I had a h m a m e t t e, and then I just dropped the h eventually in my I was like, what is this extra h that I'm throwing in?
Nick Traeger:I spelled that with an I
Shelby Myers:spell it a u.
Nick Traeger:Oh, spelled it a
Steve Edinger:Oh, u is unhinged.
Nick Traeger:I spelled it like omen ett, o m e
Justin Gerardot:n e t t.
Nick Traeger:I'm pretty sure the first episode has it as
Steve Edinger:omen See, I had had it with the a h. I thought the h was an important part of the the name.
Justin Gerardot:Oh, yeah. I have a h. Cause I didn't
Shelby Myers:Mine's more like Ah minet.
Justin Gerardot:I just wanna say Oh minet. Minet.
Steve Edinger:Isn't Omen out of Pokemon? Omenite. Omenite, I think it's. Oma Knight.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. Well, this has been a great episode of Spelling Bee in Sariel. Thank you so much for playing.
Nick Traeger:Favorite moments? Buds buds roses? Oh,
Shelby Myers:favorite moment was actually terrifying in the moment was trying to mass calm people with Aminette, and she asks for blood and I can't give her blood, and I suggest fire, and then all of the fire goes out, and I was not expecting that. I was like, oh fuck. Oh no. But it was so cool in
Nick Traeger:the moment.
Steve Edinger:I have a number of favorite moments Lucan throughout this, but I I really felt like it was effective when he got knocked out post warehouse. I think
Nick Traeger:Especially after you fucking one punched a dude the previous episode. Yeah.
Steve Edinger:And throughout at that point the first arc in what two thirds, Lucan had not failed any, let's say physical challenges. Yeah. Right? That was Yeah. What I kind of saw Lucan's place in the party was the one who can handle his shit when there's physical confrontation that needs to happen.
Steve Edinger:And so I know in that scene I think he only took one or two damage but then was like, you know, we played it out as like there's a head wound that's bleed. Like but I think that was really effective for the storytelling to have it not just be like, yep, you are at 12 out of 13 HP or whatever my HP was, and that's basically meaningless. I think having that be an actual failure at the thing Lucan is supposed to be good at doing while he's in the midst of questioning the source of a lot of his power, I felt like that came through really well and was really fun to force Luke like, for me to play Luke and Force in that situation where all his tools are failing him and, you know, aren't and even if they weren't, aren't gonna be good for solving the problem he has to deal with at that time.
Nick Traeger:Yep. Rose to Shelby and Sara for after really running with and going like letting the vision of the future of Venethar affect your character pretty deeply and profoundly. Like that was a very cool and then I also rose for Justin for that whole scene is really fun to edit and score and stuff. But that was a very cool rose slash bud going forward. And then a bud for the complicated relationship for the soup kitchen for Sara going forward now that Imogen is Yeah.
Nick Traeger:Has outed her gear. At least Sara knows. But for Lucan being on house arrest Mhmm. Mhmm. Which is just a really fun and him being like, no.
Nick Traeger:I'm not fucking going back. Like, which is again, like, another step away from the, like, whole council of faith, which is very cool. And then my favorite moment for myself is between the DL Roulet reveal and I wrote three stories, three folk tales because Harry's dad's a folk tale person. And I got to I got to pull one out during the interview, which was really fun.
Shelby Myers:I changed my answer. That's my answer. Yeah. No.
Justin Gerardot:That was mine. No.
Nick Traeger:And so that was very, very fun. That's in like but to sort of how we're gonna be five people against the fucking potentially the world, which is very fun. Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:Yeah. I think my rose goes to the Razia Harry interview. I think going into that, I had lot of kind of BBC goals for how that should feel. Yeah. And you really kind of crushed it with your kind of coming in with some facts and figures, I think that felt really, really good.
Justin Gerardot:And then how it how smoothly it transitioned to your conversation with your nephew, I think, felt that entire that entire scene both felt like one scene and two Yeah. Back to back. It it it felt so smooth. And I I think that that really showed Harry's breadth of character in in a really in a really inspiring way. I'm so sorry.
Justin Gerardot:I think Lucan's character moment, the initial instinct to kind of flee and get Sara into safety when the warehouse happened. And then when Sara kind of goes in her own direction to kind of go back into the danger, I think felt really cool. Absolutely. And felt like the the Bosnian priest thing to do.
Nick Traeger:Mhmm.
Justin Gerardot:Did it immediately backfire in that moment? Yes. Yeah. But that's fine. But it still felt like an awesome thing and and really aligned with it with kind of who Lucan is becoming it.
Justin Gerardot:And side roses to all of the little moments of questioning
Nick Traeger:Yeah.
Justin Gerardot:That you were doing felt really good. And yeah, I I would also second the the Sara vision scene Yeah. And kind of where you took that and how seamlessly it fed into the warehouse commons riot. Mhmm. Yeah.
Nick Traeger:So fun.
Justin Gerardot:So
Nick Traeger:Love it. Level up.
Shelby Myers:Yeah. Oh, yes.
Justin Gerardot:But not actually. But not actually.
Shelby Myers:Last don't we? We do,
Nick Traeger:right?
Shelby Myers:We leveled up.
Steve Edinger:Yeah, we leveled up.
Justin Gerardot:At the
Shelby Myers:end of episode
Justin Gerardot:Yeah, did. We leveled up before. Yes, you're right.
Shelby Myers:The very last sound of episode 13 is you saying we're getting leveled up and Steve going, woo.
Nick Traeger:Take us out, Justin.
Justin Gerardot:How do I take us out?
Nick Traeger:You did it last time.
Justin Gerardot:Did I? Thanks so much for listening. Follow us on Instagram and we have a Reddit page where you can also tune in and learn more. And yeah, thanks so much. We really appreciate everything that you've done so much.
Nick Traeger:You got it. Appreciate you listening.
Justin Gerardot:Appreciate it. Thanks.
Nick Traeger:Okay. I'll just do something. Thanks for coming backstage with us at Theater Of The Mindset. If you're enjoying the show, make sure to share with a friend, subscribe on your favorite pod catcher app, buy us a cup of coffee on Patreon, follow us on Instagram or Reddit, and stay tuned for arc three of faith and fortune.